Because I Wasn't There - updated 09/29/09
*Updates. 09/29/09: Added pop-up player for Consumers album. Modified info on a few early shows
09/28/09: Added Brainz record image.
09/27/09: Added Trout-O-Rama flier. Cleared up confusion about Turquoise Orchestra.
09/26/09: Added info about The Heavy Metal Frogs and KDIL in the Pre-1977 section.
09/25/09: Added flier for 02/18/78 show. Updated info on 02/18/78 show. Updated bands that were around in 1980.
09/24/09: Added April 1978 appearance by The Jam.
I have been obsessed all year long. Obsessed with a history I was never a part of...and one that I am barely qualified to write. It all started after the Super Bowl party in early February. My best gal-pal Denise from The Cosmeticators invited a few of us over to her pad to watch the video she shot during The Lustkillers show at Jamie Monistat's WokStar Bar the night before. The video was part performance/part shenanigans, starring yours truly as a liquored-up volunteered fool being decorated with toilet paper by some of my friends.
After we watched the Lustkillers vid, Denise told us of a DVD that she received a few copies of from an old friend. She gave me one of the copies. It was an early 1983 show at the famous Mad Gardens in Phoenix featuring TSOL, Grant & The Geezers, and JFA. By now, I reckon more people around town have this bootleg. Even YouTube has a few clips from that show..
This is where my obsession began. From that point in early February, Denise and I emailed several bits of information back and forth. Some of which was what she remembered being involved in the Phoenix Punk Scene 1983-86 and some of which I had researched on the web. We discussed bands, people, venues - including the exact location of the Mad Gardens (apparently there were more than one). She gave me names of people she knew from 1983 that she still talks to today. We exchanged stories on how we both got involved with the Phoenix punk rock scene.
See, I was born 1970 in Joliet, Illinois and moved to Mesa, AZ in June of 1988, right after high school graduation. Growing up in rural Illinois (about 50 miles south of Chicago), my exposure to hardcore punk was limited while my interest and curiosity was abundant. Not realizing that I would ever grow to move and live in Arizona, the names of Phoenix's elite really didn't make an impression on me at first. The Meat Puppets were one of those bands I've always read about in the SST catalogs that I would get in the mail but I wasn't sure if they were hardcore-supreme like Black Flag or an experimental art-damaged noise jam band like Gone. As far as I was concerned, JFA were just one of those crazy initial-bands that all the punk kids at school etched into the front cover of their notebooks next to TSOL, MDC, and DI. The Feederz were too soon considered a San Francisco band in the same vein as the Dead Kennedys and Flipper without the faintest hint that they ever had roots in Phoenix. I wouldn't ever say I grew up in, or was part of, an actual scene while living in Illinois. The big Windy City had a punk and underground scene that revolved around two entities: Naked Raygun and Wax Trax Records. The stories surrounding the punk and industrial scenes in Chicago created an element of mystique to 15 year old degenerates like myself whose neighborhoods were surrounded by corn fields and wide green pastures. Chicago might as well had been in Europe let alone 50 miles north. However my friends and I did know that - whatever was going on in Chicago - it was happening within our current lifetime and that it would be a beautiful thing to be a part of. We especially knew this to be true when a few of our older, automobile-equipped friends would come back with stories about the shows that they were attending at the Cabaret Metro, The Exit, and Medusa's. So I didn't know what to expect when I moved to Mesa. However I learned quickly that, while the Chicago scene was at it's peak in 1988, the glory days of the Phoenix scene had passed. Slow to make new friends, I didn't get a taste of the Phoenix punk scene until Spring 1989 when Johnithin Christ (RIP), who I had been trying to start a new band with, took me to Time Out of Mind in south Phoenix (near Sky Harbour) to see ALL with Victory Acres. As a newbie, I always thought the history of Arizona punk rock was not for me. A few years later, I turned my attention to performing and promoting new music coming out of the Phoenix area. I regretfully passed up rare opportunities to see JFA, Mighty Sphincter, Meat Puppets, and the Sun City Girls. I sensed their best days were behind them and I would just be lost among the nostalgia of others. However, as I met more and more people over the past 21 years here in Phoenix, I desired to make a connection to the scene that came years before I moved here - if only a spiritual one through the memoirs of others.
Although many names have disappeared through death or relocation, some marvelous things happened a few years back that has triggered nostalgia for a handful of people here in Phoenix. First, In The Red Records had released the Consumers album All My Friends Are Dead on CD (a vinyl version years earlier sold out). It contained 11 songs recorded in either 1977 or 1978 that was suppose to be released by L.A. punk label Dangerhouse before they folded. The Consumers album proved that punk rock existed in Phoenix, AZ - not just 1984 or 1982 - but in 1977! Some knew, some heard the legendary tales, but In The Red gave us absolute proof. Second, The Feederz returned to Phoenix for two shows (Jugheads and Modified) in 2003, marking the first time they had played in the desert since the mid-80s. The experience at Jugheads rattled dozens of old brains and from that many memories of the early days of Phoenix punk were jangled loose.
And that is where I wanted to take this particular article; the days of The Consumers and the earliest days of The Feederz, as well as a host of other pre-Mad Gardens bands and venues. The way I look at it, there is enough people still alive who were around during the golden era of punk and hardcore in Phoenix to tell the story correctly. In fact I just discovered a Facebook group called Mad Gardens to Party Gardens which captures that era (1981-1987) through memoirs and photos posted by over 300 Facebook users.
However 1980 and before is more fragmented when it comes to Phoenix punk rock history. I wanted to piece it all together and create some sort of timeline with a fair amount of continuity. Once I publish my first draft, I would like to email a few people who I hear were around during the early years and invite them to read, comment, suggest corrections, and possibly fill in some of the gaps. So expect updates and future editions of this article.
Note: It's important for me to get this right. So important that, at times, ambiguous dates and timelines just won't do. Because so much happened in so little time. Trips to the periodical archives at the ASU library has brought me very little. The few stories on the web often contradict one another and often within the same article from the same source. One would have to believe someone like John Vivier would have had to be in two places at once to accomplish all that he did in 1978. When 1980 comes around, the stories get a little clearer. Then again, it's hard to argue with dates on fliers and the stories told within the grooves of the first wave of vinyl recordings. But even as it concerns events that happened as late as 1980, a researcher like myself is starving for more details and artifacts. When you consider that we are living in the day and age when you can view videos of The Ramones performing @ CBGBs in 1974 on YouTube and gig fliers from Suicide made in 1971 on a fan site, it's a shame that more Phoenix punk rock from the 70s wasn't documented. In fact, most of the pictures taken of the Feederz and The Consumers in 1978 were done in San Francisco and Hollywood ,respectively. It's as if no one in Phoenix had access to new media tools in the late 70s.
The Mighty Sphincter bio written by Sam Atakra (based on transcribed correspondence he had with several people including Mighty Sphincter founders Doug Clark and Joe Albanese) is a mess. Which is too bad because there is so much good information in what Atakra writes. I don't fault Atakra at all, as he was obviously dealing with alot of retired and abused minds when constructing the Mighty Sphincter story. However, there is atleast one notable chronological error; a short paragraph about Doug Clark forming the Skeletones with JFA's Brian Brannon in 1976(?). I am sure that is suppose to be 1986 as Brannon would had only been 10 or 11 in 1976. Besides the Sphincter article, there are several interviews transcribed on the web with Phoenix punk pioneers like Frank Discussion of The Feederz and Don Bolles who left Phoenix in 1978 to play drums for The Germs and eventually 45 Grave . When reading, you cant help to feel compelled and lost in the nostalgia. However it is important to keep the perspective that men like Bolles and Discussion are older and probably can't remember what they ate for breakfast a few days ago let alone recall if a particular band or incident in Phoenix happened in 1976 or 1977. Add in the insane ramblings of Bart Bull, the thoughtful retrospective of Derrick Bostrom, a few good posthumous articles about the scene from the Phoenix New Times and various interviews with 45 Grave and Feederz from the pages within MRR & Flipside that reference the birth of Phoenix punk, and you can imagine how there can be plenty of date discrepancies; 1976 or 1977? 1977 or 1978? Sometimes December 1977 appears January 1978 when lost in someone's memories and when referencing an event by only the calendar year, the discrepancies can mislead us by a whole year. We all know how quick five calendar years goes by, so maybe you can understand by anal-ness as it pertains to chronological correctness within a small time period; 1976-1980.
Some may ask why I didn't interview key people first. I eventually do want to interview any willing minds from this scene, but was hoping my time and effort to collect and consolidate all the info out there can serve as an ice breaker to those I have yet to meet. Plus, I know that people, by nature, are more eager to contribute when they have read discrepancies that they feel the need to correct.
So, now, I attempt to document history...by borrowing it from several sources; properly credited, and inserting it all in some sort of timeline. I will update this in the future, when more information becomes available and others chime in.
Pre-1977:
It is within this timeframe that we could ask "Who was the first punk rock band in Phoenix?". It isn't a question really worth asking anymore, however, when Frank Discussion, Bart Bull, and practically anyone associated with Phoenix punk rock in 1977 have claimed (in interviews and blogs) that The Consumers were the first. Admittedly, that was one of my focal points in writing about the early Phoenix punk scene. During my initial research I couldn't find The Consumers' exact date of origin and assumed it was 1977 as it had been stated in most of the press reviews of the band's All My Friends Are Dead album. Yet, more than one source has said that The Exterminators started in 1976. One of those sources, the long winded biography of Mighty Sphincter, stated that The Exterminators formed for the purpose of opening up for The Consumers. Therefore it's a safe speculation that The Consumers formed in 1976 as well, prior to The Exterminators.
So I gave up the "who came first? Consumers or Exterminators?" question months ago. The one thing I do know about the first Phoenix punk rock band topic - it wasn't The Tubes. I make this statement tongue-in-cheek. In 1994, when punk rock started appearing on commercial outlets like FM radio and MTV, articles on the Phoenix punk scene would appear in the local mainstream press. I remember that one of the nitwit writers back then called The Tubes the first Arizona punk band. First, The Tubes were NEVER based in Arizona. Key members, however, spent a majority of their youth in the Phoenix area and formed a couple of garage bands in the late 60s (notably The Beans and The Red, White, and Blues Band). As Arizona natives, Prarie Prince, Bill Spooner, etc., all moved to San Francisco in 1969 years before The Tubes officially formed. So, although their Arizona heritage cannot be denied, calling The Tubes a Phoenix band would be similar to calling 45 Grave such. The Tubes were never a punk rock band in the contemporary sense anyway, but they can be considered "proto-punk" much in the same way the New York Dolls were (The Tubes actually opened up for the Dolls in San Francisco a handful of times during the early 1970s . Those would had of been some fun shows to attend).
To define The Consumers precise style in 1976 is also a challenge. Masque owner Brendan Mullen seemed to learn a great deal about The Consumers from their brief period as part of the Hollywood punk scene as he was asked to write about the band by In The Red Records in 2002. In his exposition, Mullen explains that The Consumers were "originally just three guitar players with no rhythm section...all bonded by love of psychedelic Euro-prog jazz like Henry Cow and Gong... who'd stopped listening to rock 'n' roll around 1972. By 1977 (they) had re-discovered rock through Britpunk pub raunch like The Sex Pistols and The Damned and even driven all the way to L.A. determined to hunt down a copy of the Pistols' Anarchy in the U.K. single."
So, very little is known about how much punk rock culture existed in Phoenix, AZ during 1976, or if any of what is now considered "proto-punk" existed in the nightclub circuit before the days of The Consumers and The Exterminators. Chances are those who would grow to perform punk rock and adopt the culture by 1977 were listening to a pirate radio station called KDIL (anyone who watched the Germs biopic What We Do Is Secret will remember the attention paid to detail when Don Bolles wore a KDIL t-shirt the night he "auditioned" for Pat Smear and Darby Crash). The station broadcasted at several spots of the FM dial and from several different transmitter locations from thea early to mid 70s, often going off the air many months in between. KDIL featured several on air personalities, including Don Bolles and KDKB's Russel Shaw. A xeroxed fanzine called KDIL Blues Licks was published in association with the pirate radio station. The link features several scans from the zine, which they claim was the world's first xerox copied fanzine.
As for bands on a national level who were touring, The Ramones did not play anywhere outside of California during their 1976 West Coast tour. A chronological gig history of the New York Dolls proves the band missed Phoenix atleast twice in the 70s when David Johansen and the boys headed west. A search through Songkick.com's database shows nothing of interest within the Phoenix area in the mid-70s outside of an occasional Kiss, Zappa, or David Bowie concert. The only thing noteworthy was Graham Parker opening for Thin Lizzy on 11/12/76 at the Celebrity Theatre. In his WeAreTheConsumers blog, Bart Bull talks about seeing Iggy & The Stooges open up for Dr. John but I cannot find anything to prove that show actually happened in Phoenix. The Runaways from L.A. started touring in 1976 but finding a club date in the Phoenix area is a near-impossible task. It was only recently (90s, 2000s) when booking agents considered Phoenix to be a major market for music. Back in 1976 it would had made more sense to play Boise as it would anywhere in Arizona. The concert scene in Phoenix circa 1976 was bleak and faint unless you were either into heavy metal or country. There was very little exposure to the exploding punk scenes in New York, London, and L.A. for any kids living in Phoenix. Most punk rock records were bought in L.A. because the Phoenix record stores refused to stock them.
It is important to know what bands other musicians who were around before 1977 to help paint the landscape of Phoenix Punk Rock 1977-1980 . In an interview with Punk Globe, Don Bolles (real name Jimmy Giorsetti) talked about moving to San Francisco for a short period in 1976 to be part of the scene there. That was where he met Rob Ritter (aka Rob Bag, Rob Graves), who journeyed there from Detroit. Bolles goes on to say he returned to Phoenix later that year and formed Kray-zee Homicide (or Krazy Homicide) prior to joining The Exterminators as their drummer. Prior to his brief venture out to San Francisco, Bolles played fora band called The Heavy Metal Frogs with his pal John Vivier. Thiswould be early 1976. They were heavily inspired by KIng Crimson and could very well fall into the promo-punk category. Check out this page from KDIL Blues Licks that feature an illustration of the Heavy Metal Frogs.
So there you have the possible pre-1977 Phoenix punk roster. The Consumers, The Exterminators, and Krazy Homicide with Heavy Metal Frogs who came before them. The Consumers are definitely the most documented out of the four, but barely documented at that.
1977
It is within this timeframe that we could ask "Who was the first punk rock band in Phoenix?". It isn't a question really worth asking anymore, however, when Frank Discussion, Bart Bull, and practically anyone associated with Phoenix punk rock in 1977 have claimed (in interviews and blogs) that The Consumers were the first. Admittedly, that was one of my focal points in writing about the early Phoenix punk scene. During my initial research I couldn't find The Consumers' exact date of origin and assumed it was 1977 as it had been stated in most of the press reviews of the band's All My Friends Are Dead album. Yet, more than one source has said that The Exterminators started in 1976. One of those sources, the long winded biography of Mighty Sphincter, stated that The Exterminators formed for the purpose of opening up for The Consumers. Therefore it's a safe speculation that The Consumers formed in 1976 as well, prior to The Exterminators.
So I gave up the "who came first? Consumers or Exterminators?" question months ago. The one thing I do know about the first Phoenix punk rock band topic - it wasn't The Tubes. I make this statement tongue-in-cheek. In 1994, when punk rock started appearing on commercial outlets like FM radio and MTV, articles on the Phoenix punk scene would appear in the local mainstream press. I remember that one of the nitwit writers back then called The Tubes the first Arizona punk band. First, The Tubes were NEVER based in Arizona. Key members, however, spent a majority of their youth in the Phoenix area and formed a couple of garage bands in the late 60s (notably The Beans and The Red, White, and Blues Band). As Arizona natives, Prarie Prince, Bill Spooner, etc., all moved to San Francisco in 1969 years before The Tubes officially formed. So, although their Arizona heritage cannot be denied, calling The Tubes a Phoenix band would be similar to calling 45 Grave such. The Tubes were never a punk rock band in the contemporary sense anyway, but they can be considered "proto-punk" much in the same way the New York Dolls were (The Tubes actually opened up for the Dolls in San Francisco a handful of times during the early 1970s . Those would had of been some fun shows to attend).
To define The Consumers precise style in 1976 is also a challenge. Masque owner Brendan Mullen seemed to learn a great deal about The Consumers from their brief period as part of the Hollywood punk scene as he was asked to write about the band by In The Red Records in 2002. In his exposition, Mullen explains that The Consumers were "originally just three guitar players with no rhythm section...all bonded by love of psychedelic Euro-prog jazz like Henry Cow and Gong... who'd stopped listening to rock 'n' roll around 1972. By 1977 (they) had re-discovered rock through Britpunk pub raunch like The Sex Pistols and The Damned and even driven all the way to L.A. determined to hunt down a copy of the Pistols' Anarchy in the U.K. single."
So, very little is known about how much punk rock culture existed in Phoenix, AZ during 1976, or if any of what is now considered "proto-punk" existed in the nightclub circuit before the days of The Consumers and The Exterminators. Chances are those who would grow to perform punk rock and adopt the culture by 1977 were listening to a pirate radio station called KDIL (anyone who watched the Germs biopic What We Do Is Secret will remember the attention paid to detail when Don Bolles wore a KDIL t-shirt the night he "auditioned" for Pat Smear and Darby Crash). The station broadcasted at several spots of the FM dial and from several different transmitter locations from thea early to mid 70s, often going off the air many months in between. KDIL featured several on air personalities, including Don Bolles and KDKB's Russel Shaw. A xeroxed fanzine called KDIL Blues Licks was published in association with the pirate radio station. The link features several scans from the zine, which they claim was the world's first xerox copied fanzine.
As for bands on a national level who were touring, The Ramones did not play anywhere outside of California during their 1976 West Coast tour. A chronological gig history of the New York Dolls proves the band missed Phoenix atleast twice in the 70s when David Johansen and the boys headed west. A search through Songkick.com's database shows nothing of interest within the Phoenix area in the mid-70s outside of an occasional Kiss, Zappa, or David Bowie concert. The only thing noteworthy was Graham Parker opening for Thin Lizzy on 11/12/76 at the Celebrity Theatre. In his WeAreTheConsumers blog, Bart Bull talks about seeing Iggy & The Stooges open up for Dr. John but I cannot find anything to prove that show actually happened in Phoenix. The Runaways from L.A. started touring in 1976 but finding a club date in the Phoenix area is a near-impossible task. It was only recently (90s, 2000s) when booking agents considered Phoenix to be a major market for music. Back in 1976 it would had made more sense to play Boise as it would anywhere in Arizona. The concert scene in Phoenix circa 1976 was bleak and faint unless you were either into heavy metal or country. There was very little exposure to the exploding punk scenes in New York, London, and L.A. for any kids living in Phoenix. Most punk rock records were bought in L.A. because the Phoenix record stores refused to stock them.
It is important to know what bands other musicians who were around before 1977 to help paint the landscape of Phoenix Punk Rock 1977-1980 . In an interview with Punk Globe, Don Bolles (real name Jimmy Giorsetti) talked about moving to San Francisco for a short period in 1976 to be part of the scene there. That was where he met Rob Ritter (aka Rob Bag, Rob Graves), who journeyed there from Detroit. Bolles goes on to say he returned to Phoenix later that year and formed Kray-zee Homicide (or Krazy Homicide) prior to joining The Exterminators as their drummer. Prior to his brief venture out to San Francisco, Bolles played fora band called The Heavy Metal Frogs with his pal John Vivier. Thiswould be early 1976. They were heavily inspired by KIng Crimson and could very well fall into the promo-punk category. Check out this page from KDIL Blues Licks that feature an illustration of the Heavy Metal Frogs.
So there you have the possible pre-1977 Phoenix punk roster. The Consumers, The Exterminators, and Krazy Homicide with Heavy Metal Frogs who came before them. The Consumers are definitely the most documented out of the four, but barely documented at that.
1977
1977 was the year where all the notorious legendary biker/redneck bar shows were happening, pre-dating any similar experiences the Sex Pistols had during their American tour. The only club name that was ever mentioned in this time period was a strip joint called The Zoo. I wouldn't doubt it if a place like Greasewood Flats in Scottsdale hosted a few of these events or maybe Handlebar J's. Or that place called Lucky's off Grand Avenue. In 1977, there were really just two punk bands playing on a consistent basis in Phoenix: The Exterminators and The Consumers (although I will touch on the possibility of a few others).
The Exterminators were originally Dan Clark on vocals, his brother Doug Clark on guitar, Joe Albanese on bass, and Doug Goss on drums. When Rob Ritter moved to Phoenix from Detroit at the plea of his buddy Don Bolles, he replaced Joe Albanese on bass while Bolles became The Exterminators' drummer after Doug Goss puked on stage during a gig. There is not any discography for The Exterminators but there are rumors that Don Bolles is hiding some bootlegs and demos. Damn I would like to get my hands on those. Could you imagine a band formed by the teenage Clark brothers with two guys who went onto play in 45 Grave? I don't know how many songs they had in their set or how long their set was. There was a song called "Exterminator" on the first Mighty Sphincter 7", which could very well had been written during The Exterminators days since Doug Clark was in both bands. Another possible song from The Exterminators set list would be "Just Like Your Mom", a tune that eventually became a single for L.A.'s Vox Pop (which featured Don Bolles and Paul Cutler, post-Phoenix, pre-45 Grave). I based my theory on the fact that, a year before the Vox Pop's seven inch single for "...Mom" was released, The Feederz recorded the song as part of their 1979 collection Living Room Demos. Considering that Feederz' bassist Clear Bob (aka Dan Clark) was the singer for The Exterminators, this could be a song that both Don Bolles and Clark inherited from their former band. Ex-Vox Pop guitarist Jeff Dahl recently joked with me that "Just Like Your Mom" could be the "Chinese Rocks" of the West Coast. .
The Consumers lineup was now intact with guitarist Greg Jones joining the trio of guitarist Paul B. Cutler, bassist MIkey Borens, and lead vocalist David Wiley. I am unclear on which point their first drummer Jim Allen left and John E. Precious (John Vivier) took over. Under debate as well is the true date that they recorded the 11 songs that appeared on their retrospective All My Friends Are Dead. Some sources say it was 1977 while other sources say it was 1978, right before the "exodus of the Cactusheads". If it was 1977 when they recorded these songs, it would pre-date the Nervous Breakdown recordings of Black Flag/Panic and quite possibly be the first "hardcore" punk recordings in the world. One thing of interest is that the recordings include Jim Allen (who went on to play with new wavers Blue Shoes) and not Vivier who is pictured below (the guy in the middle wearing the leopard print jacket with both hands on what appears to be a wrestling ring rope ~ where was this picture taken? The Consumers were pre-Mad Gardens?). That would indicate the recordings did happen in 1977, since many tales indicate that Jim Allen left the band early on at the behest of family members who had witnessed how violent the gigs actually were. However, I saw that Mikey Borens posted a few comments on the Spending Loud Night blog where he states that Precious didn't join until The Consumers moved to Hollywood in 1978 , which could place Jim Allen as the drummer all through early 1978 - which could open the 1978 recording date argument back up. As far as additional recordings from The Consumers, none have surfaced, yet I have heard rumors of demos being out there. A Deadbeats article that appeared in Flipside # 9 talked about Geza X producing the band as well, so there definitely could be a second album's worth of studio quality tracks.
If you have never heard anything from The Consumers, I have a pop-up player where you can hear samples from All My Friends Are Dead.
Other than the main two, there were only a few other punk bands from Phoenix who existed in 1977. This would include The Feederz who began in '77, but probably didn't play their first show until June of 1978 when drummer Art Nouveau (aka John E. Precious/Vivier) came back from Hollywood after The Consumers broke up. Until Nouveau's return to Phoenix, Frank Discussion kept busy in various short lived bands while establishing the Feederz name through various methods like sending out press releases that the media mistook as terrorist propaganda .Considering various interviews he has done, Frank Discussion definitely knows the 1977 scene well as he often relays the same stories about fighting with shitkickers and bikers whenever The Consumers or The Exterminators would play. According to The Feederz Myspace and Wikipedia page, the band formed in 1977 with Discussion and Clear Bob. Discussion said during a 2002 interview in MRR that he and Clear Bob "got together to do something on the side".
"When the Feederz started, there was about 10 of us who were the 'punk scene' in Phoenix. We would pick from each other and it was you, you, you and me and let's call ourselves the Stinking Defeated Old Lepers or whatever and we'd play one show and then form another group. The Consumers and the Exterminators were the only exceptions who existed for any length of time. Clear Bob and I got together on the side to do something different. Our motivation "Rage". We were so sick of all the garbage we had to swallow and we wanted to play at jamming it down all their throats. And playing music would be a fun way of doing it. Sure as hell beats passing out mimeographed pamphlets outside of work. Hahahaha. But even before we started playing music we had started our assault in other areas knowing how the media wouldn't be able to resist" (transcribed from a 2002 interview with Frank Discussion, MRR #234).
The "assault in other ideas" was likely a reference to the infamous press release/media scare which probably took place in 1977. (source: Feederz' Wikipedia entry)
And then there was Eddy Detroit and His New Permanent Wave Band. The question remains if and when Eddy got his start in Phoenix and if he was living in L.A. prior to making his mark as an bizarre underground musician around Phoenix in the early 80s. What I do know is Eddy Detroit played The Masque in Hollywood on 11/19/1977 per Flipside Magazine's list of 1977 shows. So we know that this crazy cat was around in either one of the two scenes. I found a flier for the event on an auction website, but it doesn't specify if Eddy Detroit was billed from Phoenix, L.A., or elsewhere. Remember, this would be before The Consumers or Don Bolles ever played on a California stage, making Detroit the first Phoenix musician to ever travel outside his home state to play a show - but only if we know for sure that Eddy Detroit was indeed from Phoenix was the very beginning.
Another '77 Phoenix punk band I've heard about is The Liars with Don Bolles, Rob Ritter and John Vivier, who were roommates at the time (not the same band as the The Liars from San Francisco who did play a handful of shows in SF and LA between 1977-78). I believe Don was the front man and Vivier remained drummer (as Don has stated that The Exterminators were the first band he drummed for while he sang for all previous bands), however Derrick Bostrom, in an article he wrote for the Arizona Republic, claimed that Don Bolles was his favorite drummer in town from his time in The Liars. We know from the Frank Discussion and Don Bolles interviews that many of the folks in the two main '77 Phoenix punk bands formed other bands that were very short lived, to make things interesting. With several sources referencing The Liars, I am not sure if they fall into the "one time only" category that Discussion described or among the first wave of consistent punk bands in Phoenix as Bostrom suggests. I'm also not sure if they came before, after, or played within the time frame Bolles and Ritter spent with The Exterminators.
Nonetheless, the scene in Phoenix was so small that you could practically name everyone in the scene...and I will: David Wiley, Paul B. Cutler, Mikey Borens, Greg Jones, Jim Allen, John Vivier (aka John E. Precious/Art Nouveau), Dan Clark (aka Clear Bob), Doug Clark, Joe Albanese, Doug Goss (or Gauss) , Rob Ritter (aka Rob Graves), Jimmy Giorsetti (aka Don Bolles), Frank Discussion, Bart Bull, Derrick Bostrom (not in any noteworthy bands in 1977, but the Meat Puppets' drummer references his experiences in 77-78 on his blog and in past interviews), and possibly Eddy Detroit. Del Hopkins was another "cactushead" (term used to described those who fled Phoenix for L.A. in 1978 - Bolles, Ritter, The Consumers, Doug Clark, etc), however I do not know of a Phoenix band he played with in the late 70s. Perhaps you can add Rick Bertoni or Jesse Srogoncik, as their involvement came fairly soon in 1978 and either of them may had witnessed some of the Consumers/Exterminators gigs in 1977.
As for the infamous string of shows at various redneck and biker bars, there are some crazy stories out there. Some lead you to believe that The Consumers played one bad show and took off for L.A., while other stories paint The Consumers as a very visible and important band in the Phoenix club scene at that time that endured well over a year of abuse before making the move to California.
Here are some of my favorite quotes about the rough and tumbled Phoenix scene from 1977.
""Actually, we got started in the 1970s and back then there were just like ten of us in Phoenix. Out of this circle there we'd start a new band every week even though a couple of bands like the Consumers and the Exterminators were more permanent fixtures. There wasn't a scene and we'd just get gigs at biker bars and shit by lying about what we played. It was big fun harassing the denizens of Phoenix. Sometimes we'd have to fight our way out of the clubs though" (from Alexander Laurence's' interview with Frank Discussion in his ThePortable-Infinite blog. Full article can be found here.)
"The Consumers' first gig as a re-vamped punk rock band caused an uproar at the Zoo in Phoenix on new talent audition night with the show ending in violence. Phoenix at the time was strictly a three sets a night cover band scene. The Consumers' set ended in a brawl when somebody threatened Paul with a knife, and later some shithead tried to rip off the band's equipment. Phoenix was pure hell for any band doing original material, let alone a PUNK band daring to show its face!" (from 70s Hollywood punk promoter Brendan Mullen review of All My Friends Are Dead for In The Red Records. Full article can be found here.)
"Gosh, kids, you're gonna encounter just how dead-seriously fuckin' dangerous punk really and truly-ruly was, at least if you did it out in the Bum-fuck Boondocks, the hinterlands, the interlands the Netherworld, the Sticks, took it out of Manhattan and London and Hollywood, out of places where everybody already knew all about goofy bohemian youth movement beatnik theater-majors, and into a town where pretty much every second or third pickup truck had it a Waylon Jennings silk-screened back window panel see-thru sunshade and a bumper sticker that fondly suggested that you "Be A Roper, Not A Doper." You'll get to see some serious ass-kickin', kids, just like in the movies and the comic books and everything. It's gonna make a lot of what you've seen of punk-rock violence seem, well, kinda sad and silly and low-operatic at the very same time." (From Bart Bull's We Are The Consumers blog. Check it out...it's worth it just for the Consumers flier and newspaper article photo.)
"Every gig was in a cowboy bar or a biker bar, and nobody had figured out what “dressing like a punk” actually meant yet. Every show was a fucking riot, literally, and the Consumers were ferocious and fearless,because there was every reason to believe you were going to get killed that very night." (Bart Bull's comment on the review for the Consumers All My Friends Are Dead LP on the Spending Loud Night blog)
"I'd been into punk since the minute I heard it, early '77. In '77, when I first got into it, there were a few punk rockers. Then there were some people that were into bands like King Crimson and Gong, and that whole kind of jazz, who were playing that kind of pre-punk/experimental/heavy metal/progressive sort of stuff. And we were big fans of King Crimson. We thought that stuff was great. Then punk hit. Of course, I was just a kid and I had never left Phoenix. But some people were going to L.A. and buying records." (Derrick Bostrom from 1995 Meat Puppets story in Goldmine)
Bostrom went on to say that he first learned of local punk bands like The Consumers on KDKB of all places (back in 1977, KDKB was more of a free form FM station) and from an article about local music in one of the Phoenix papers (most likely written by Consumers manager Bart Bull, who wrote for the Arizona Republic in the 1970s. The newspaper cutout that I linked above from Bull's blog may have been from that same article Bostrom refers to). So although The Consumers and The Exterminators were spit on, heckled, fucked with, and violently challenged during every gig they played , they made some early friends with those involved with radio and press (which, again, made the Consumers sound like an important band that endured more than just a couple of shows). Maybe KDKB were looking for their own novelty, their own AZ bred version of the Ramones or The Sex Pistols. What drunk rednecks wants and what radio personalities are willing to play on FM are 2 totally different things at times.
As for touring bands performing in the Phoenix area, all I have documented is October 4, 1977 when Graham Parker & the Rumour played the Celebrity Theatre in Phoenix (no info on support acts). I am personally dumbfounded by the fact Graham Parker toured the U.S. 2 years in a row and performed in Phoenix both times while others had totally skipped Arizona. The Ramones toured the west coast again in 1977... and passed Phoenix again. So did the Blondie-Iggy Pop--David Bowie tour. UK bands like The Damned, The Jam, and Eddie & The Hot Rods went straight from their home overseas to Los Angeles, perhaps stopping in New York and a few, more important cities in between. New York bands like The Dictators, Talking Heads. Television, and Mink De Ville head west in 1977, but only for shows at The Whiskey in LA and maybe a stop north to San Francisco or Seattle.
However, I once heard that The Dead Boys played an upstairs venue on Mill Avenue in Tempe and could very well had been the first touring punk band to play in the Phoenix area. Anyone familiar with the address 414 S. Mill Avenue in Tempe knows that the upstairs spot has been the location for many clubs (now called Vintage, it has been known as Ziggys, Edsel's Attic and Rafters before that). Any information to validate a Dead Boys show at Rafters or anywhere in Tempe around October/November 1977, please contact me.
But then again, I once met 2 separate people - at two separate points of time - who both told me the same folk story. An ex-girlfriend's aunt and a hair stylist at a Tempe strip mall salon both told me that they saw The Sex Pistols play The Valley Art Theatre in 1978. The stories were told to me around the time The Pistols reunited in the mid-90s, making the tall tale topical - and were almost identical in details. A quick look at the gigs played during the 1978 Sex Pistols U.S. tour will show that there was not any dates in the state of Arizona, however there are day offs in between Dallas and Tulsa, and then Tulsa and San Francisco, but those days were obviously used to travel long distances between the booked cities. So, I call bullshit, but wonder how often that rumor has been repeated over the past 30 years.
Although Phoenix was a bit behind the curve when it came to exposing a fluid punk/underground culture, it is interesting to note Bart Bull's claim that he and David Wiley from the Consumers created the world's first xerox-copied punk fanzine called Browbeat in June 1977. It's first and only issues predates L.A.'s Flipside #1 by a month or so. I am not quite sure who was featured or what was written. The Browbeat name lived on years later as the name of Wiley's local music column that appeared in the Phoenix New Times.
The Exterminators were originally Dan Clark on vocals, his brother Doug Clark on guitar, Joe Albanese on bass, and Doug Goss on drums. When Rob Ritter moved to Phoenix from Detroit at the plea of his buddy Don Bolles, he replaced Joe Albanese on bass while Bolles became The Exterminators' drummer after Doug Goss puked on stage during a gig. There is not any discography for The Exterminators but there are rumors that Don Bolles is hiding some bootlegs and demos. Damn I would like to get my hands on those. Could you imagine a band formed by the teenage Clark brothers with two guys who went onto play in 45 Grave? I don't know how many songs they had in their set or how long their set was. There was a song called "Exterminator" on the first Mighty Sphincter 7", which could very well had been written during The Exterminators days since Doug Clark was in both bands. Another possible song from The Exterminators set list would be "Just Like Your Mom", a tune that eventually became a single for L.A.'s Vox Pop (which featured Don Bolles and Paul Cutler, post-Phoenix, pre-45 Grave). I based my theory on the fact that, a year before the Vox Pop's seven inch single for "...Mom" was released, The Feederz recorded the song as part of their 1979 collection Living Room Demos. Considering that Feederz' bassist Clear Bob (aka Dan Clark) was the singer for The Exterminators, this could be a song that both Don Bolles and Clark inherited from their former band. Ex-Vox Pop guitarist Jeff Dahl recently joked with me that "Just Like Your Mom" could be the "Chinese Rocks" of the West Coast. .
The Consumers lineup was now intact with guitarist Greg Jones joining the trio of guitarist Paul B. Cutler, bassist MIkey Borens, and lead vocalist David Wiley. I am unclear on which point their first drummer Jim Allen left and John E. Precious (John Vivier) took over. Under debate as well is the true date that they recorded the 11 songs that appeared on their retrospective All My Friends Are Dead. Some sources say it was 1977 while other sources say it was 1978, right before the "exodus of the Cactusheads". If it was 1977 when they recorded these songs, it would pre-date the Nervous Breakdown recordings of Black Flag/Panic and quite possibly be the first "hardcore" punk recordings in the world. One thing of interest is that the recordings include Jim Allen (who went on to play with new wavers Blue Shoes) and not Vivier who is pictured below (the guy in the middle wearing the leopard print jacket with both hands on what appears to be a wrestling ring rope ~ where was this picture taken? The Consumers were pre-Mad Gardens?). That would indicate the recordings did happen in 1977, since many tales indicate that Jim Allen left the band early on at the behest of family members who had witnessed how violent the gigs actually were. However, I saw that Mikey Borens posted a few comments on the Spending Loud Night blog where he states that Precious didn't join until The Consumers moved to Hollywood in 1978 , which could place Jim Allen as the drummer all through early 1978 - which could open the 1978 recording date argument back up. As far as additional recordings from The Consumers, none have surfaced, yet I have heard rumors of demos being out there. A Deadbeats article that appeared in Flipside # 9 talked about Geza X producing the band as well, so there definitely could be a second album's worth of studio quality tracks.
If you have never heard anything from The Consumers, I have a pop-up player where you can hear samples from All My Friends Are Dead.
Other than the main two, there were only a few other punk bands from Phoenix who existed in 1977. This would include The Feederz who began in '77, but probably didn't play their first show until June of 1978 when drummer Art Nouveau (aka John E. Precious/Vivier) came back from Hollywood after The Consumers broke up. Until Nouveau's return to Phoenix, Frank Discussion kept busy in various short lived bands while establishing the Feederz name through various methods like sending out press releases that the media mistook as terrorist propaganda .Considering various interviews he has done, Frank Discussion definitely knows the 1977 scene well as he often relays the same stories about fighting with shitkickers and bikers whenever The Consumers or The Exterminators would play. According to The Feederz Myspace and Wikipedia page, the band formed in 1977 with Discussion and Clear Bob. Discussion said during a 2002 interview in MRR that he and Clear Bob "got together to do something on the side".
"When the Feederz started, there was about 10 of us who were the 'punk scene' in Phoenix. We would pick from each other and it was you, you, you and me and let's call ourselves the Stinking Defeated Old Lepers or whatever and we'd play one show and then form another group. The Consumers and the Exterminators were the only exceptions who existed for any length of time. Clear Bob and I got together on the side to do something different. Our motivation "Rage". We were so sick of all the garbage we had to swallow and we wanted to play at jamming it down all their throats. And playing music would be a fun way of doing it. Sure as hell beats passing out mimeographed pamphlets outside of work. Hahahaha. But even before we started playing music we had started our assault in other areas knowing how the media wouldn't be able to resist" (transcribed from a 2002 interview with Frank Discussion, MRR #234).
The "assault in other ideas" was likely a reference to the infamous press release/media scare which probably took place in 1977. (source: Feederz' Wikipedia entry)
And then there was Eddy Detroit and His New Permanent Wave Band. The question remains if and when Eddy got his start in Phoenix and if he was living in L.A. prior to making his mark as an bizarre underground musician around Phoenix in the early 80s. What I do know is Eddy Detroit played The Masque in Hollywood on 11/19/1977 per Flipside Magazine's list of 1977 shows. So we know that this crazy cat was around in either one of the two scenes. I found a flier for the event on an auction website, but it doesn't specify if Eddy Detroit was billed from Phoenix, L.A., or elsewhere. Remember, this would be before The Consumers or Don Bolles ever played on a California stage, making Detroit the first Phoenix musician to ever travel outside his home state to play a show - but only if we know for sure that Eddy Detroit was indeed from Phoenix was the very beginning.
Another '77 Phoenix punk band I've heard about is The Liars with Don Bolles, Rob Ritter and John Vivier, who were roommates at the time (not the same band as the The Liars from San Francisco who did play a handful of shows in SF and LA between 1977-78). I believe Don was the front man and Vivier remained drummer (as Don has stated that The Exterminators were the first band he drummed for while he sang for all previous bands), however Derrick Bostrom, in an article he wrote for the Arizona Republic, claimed that Don Bolles was his favorite drummer in town from his time in The Liars. We know from the Frank Discussion and Don Bolles interviews that many of the folks in the two main '77 Phoenix punk bands formed other bands that were very short lived, to make things interesting. With several sources referencing The Liars, I am not sure if they fall into the "one time only" category that Discussion described or among the first wave of consistent punk bands in Phoenix as Bostrom suggests. I'm also not sure if they came before, after, or played within the time frame Bolles and Ritter spent with The Exterminators.
Nonetheless, the scene in Phoenix was so small that you could practically name everyone in the scene...and I will: David Wiley, Paul B. Cutler, Mikey Borens, Greg Jones, Jim Allen, John Vivier (aka John E. Precious/Art Nouveau), Dan Clark (aka Clear Bob), Doug Clark, Joe Albanese, Doug Goss (or Gauss) , Rob Ritter (aka Rob Graves), Jimmy Giorsetti (aka Don Bolles), Frank Discussion, Bart Bull, Derrick Bostrom (not in any noteworthy bands in 1977, but the Meat Puppets' drummer references his experiences in 77-78 on his blog and in past interviews), and possibly Eddy Detroit. Del Hopkins was another "cactushead" (term used to described those who fled Phoenix for L.A. in 1978 - Bolles, Ritter, The Consumers, Doug Clark, etc), however I do not know of a Phoenix band he played with in the late 70s. Perhaps you can add Rick Bertoni or Jesse Srogoncik, as their involvement came fairly soon in 1978 and either of them may had witnessed some of the Consumers/Exterminators gigs in 1977.
As for the infamous string of shows at various redneck and biker bars, there are some crazy stories out there. Some lead you to believe that The Consumers played one bad show and took off for L.A., while other stories paint The Consumers as a very visible and important band in the Phoenix club scene at that time that endured well over a year of abuse before making the move to California.
Here are some of my favorite quotes about the rough and tumbled Phoenix scene from 1977.
""Actually, we got started in the 1970s and back then there were just like ten of us in Phoenix. Out of this circle there we'd start a new band every week even though a couple of bands like the Consumers and the Exterminators were more permanent fixtures. There wasn't a scene and we'd just get gigs at biker bars and shit by lying about what we played. It was big fun harassing the denizens of Phoenix. Sometimes we'd have to fight our way out of the clubs though" (from Alexander Laurence's' interview with Frank Discussion in his ThePortable-Infinite blog. Full article can be found here.)
"The Consumers' first gig as a re-vamped punk rock band caused an uproar at the Zoo in Phoenix on new talent audition night with the show ending in violence. Phoenix at the time was strictly a three sets a night cover band scene. The Consumers' set ended in a brawl when somebody threatened Paul with a knife, and later some shithead tried to rip off the band's equipment. Phoenix was pure hell for any band doing original material, let alone a PUNK band daring to show its face!" (from 70s Hollywood punk promoter Brendan Mullen review of All My Friends Are Dead for In The Red Records. Full article can be found here.)
"Gosh, kids, you're gonna encounter just how dead-seriously fuckin' dangerous punk really and truly-ruly was, at least if you did it out in the Bum-fuck Boondocks, the hinterlands, the interlands the Netherworld, the Sticks, took it out of Manhattan and London and Hollywood, out of places where everybody already knew all about goofy bohemian youth movement beatnik theater-majors, and into a town where pretty much every second or third pickup truck had it a Waylon Jennings silk-screened back window panel see-thru sunshade and a bumper sticker that fondly suggested that you "Be A Roper, Not A Doper." You'll get to see some serious ass-kickin', kids, just like in the movies and the comic books and everything. It's gonna make a lot of what you've seen of punk-rock violence seem, well, kinda sad and silly and low-operatic at the very same time." (From Bart Bull's We Are The Consumers blog. Check it out...it's worth it just for the Consumers flier and newspaper article photo.)
"Every gig was in a cowboy bar or a biker bar, and nobody had figured out what “dressing like a punk” actually meant yet. Every show was a fucking riot, literally, and the Consumers were ferocious and fearless,because there was every reason to believe you were going to get killed that very night." (Bart Bull's comment on the review for the Consumers All My Friends Are Dead LP on the Spending Loud Night blog)
"I'd been into punk since the minute I heard it, early '77. In '77, when I first got into it, there were a few punk rockers. Then there were some people that were into bands like King Crimson and Gong, and that whole kind of jazz, who were playing that kind of pre-punk/experimental/heavy metal/progressive sort of stuff. And we were big fans of King Crimson. We thought that stuff was great. Then punk hit. Of course, I was just a kid and I had never left Phoenix. But some people were going to L.A. and buying records." (Derrick Bostrom from 1995 Meat Puppets story in Goldmine)
Bostrom went on to say that he first learned of local punk bands like The Consumers on KDKB of all places (back in 1977, KDKB was more of a free form FM station) and from an article about local music in one of the Phoenix papers (most likely written by Consumers manager Bart Bull, who wrote for the Arizona Republic in the 1970s. The newspaper cutout that I linked above from Bull's blog may have been from that same article Bostrom refers to). So although The Consumers and The Exterminators were spit on, heckled, fucked with, and violently challenged during every gig they played , they made some early friends with those involved with radio and press (which, again, made the Consumers sound like an important band that endured more than just a couple of shows). Maybe KDKB were looking for their own novelty, their own AZ bred version of the Ramones or The Sex Pistols. What drunk rednecks wants and what radio personalities are willing to play on FM are 2 totally different things at times.
As for touring bands performing in the Phoenix area, all I have documented is October 4, 1977 when Graham Parker & the Rumour played the Celebrity Theatre in Phoenix (no info on support acts). I am personally dumbfounded by the fact Graham Parker toured the U.S. 2 years in a row and performed in Phoenix both times while others had totally skipped Arizona. The Ramones toured the west coast again in 1977... and passed Phoenix again. So did the Blondie-Iggy Pop--David Bowie tour. UK bands like The Damned, The Jam, and Eddie & The Hot Rods went straight from their home overseas to Los Angeles, perhaps stopping in New York and a few, more important cities in between. New York bands like The Dictators, Talking Heads. Television, and Mink De Ville head west in 1977, but only for shows at The Whiskey in LA and maybe a stop north to San Francisco or Seattle.
However, I once heard that The Dead Boys played an upstairs venue on Mill Avenue in Tempe and could very well had been the first touring punk band to play in the Phoenix area. Anyone familiar with the address 414 S. Mill Avenue in Tempe knows that the upstairs spot has been the location for many clubs (now called Vintage, it has been known as Ziggys, Edsel's Attic and Rafters before that). Any information to validate a Dead Boys show at Rafters or anywhere in Tempe around October/November 1977, please contact me.
But then again, I once met 2 separate people - at two separate points of time - who both told me the same folk story. An ex-girlfriend's aunt and a hair stylist at a Tempe strip mall salon both told me that they saw The Sex Pistols play The Valley Art Theatre in 1978. The stories were told to me around the time The Pistols reunited in the mid-90s, making the tall tale topical - and were almost identical in details. A quick look at the gigs played during the 1978 Sex Pistols U.S. tour will show that there was not any dates in the state of Arizona, however there are day offs in between Dallas and Tulsa, and then Tulsa and San Francisco, but those days were obviously used to travel long distances between the booked cities. So, I call bullshit, but wonder how often that rumor has been repeated over the past 30 years.
Although Phoenix was a bit behind the curve when it came to exposing a fluid punk/underground culture, it is interesting to note Bart Bull's claim that he and David Wiley from the Consumers created the world's first xerox-copied punk fanzine called Browbeat in June 1977. It's first and only issues predates L.A.'s Flipside #1 by a month or so. I am not quite sure who was featured or what was written. The Browbeat name lived on years later as the name of Wiley's local music column that appeared in the Phoenix New Times.
1978
Although there is not a real punk rock club scene in 1978 yet, we are finally seeing some touring bands visit the Phoenix area. Here is a incomplete list of known punk/new wave shows that were booked in the Phoenix area.
02/08/1978: The Ramones with The Runaways (Dooleys in Tempe - until I confirmed a possible Dead Boys show in Phoenix in 1977, this would be considered the first punk rock show in the Phoenix area featuring touring bands)
02/18/1978: The Dils with The Consumers and The Exterminators (Valley Art Theatre in Tempe. This may had been a farewell show for The Consumers, Don Bolles, and Rob Ritter. According to Derrick Bostrom in pur comments section, the Dils did not appear.)
04/11 & 04/12/1978: The Jam (Celebrity Theater opening for Be Bop Deluxe for a two night stand. Derrick Bostrom remembers the Be Bop crowd hating The Jam).
05/29/1978: Elvis Costello & The Attractions (Phoenix Symphony Hall, no info on support acts)
07/20/1978: Blondie (Dooley's in Tempe in support of The Kinks. According to Kinks' archivist Doug Hinman, this show may have been canceled)
11/06/1978: Devo (Dooley's, Tempe. Support act unknown)
12/05/1978 Ramones (Veteran's Memorial Coliseum in Phoenix in support of Black Sabbath)
Many have called Dooley's a bar, yet it really was a entertainment venue that hosted touring "baby-national" bands. Some of you may know this place as After The Goldrush or The Electric Ballroom. The shows were produced by no other than Danny Zelisko, who founded Evening Star Productions and became one of Phoenix's most successful and longest running concert promoters.
1978 is the year in which two Phoenix punk bands really make a splash. However, that splash is felt by California more so than Arizona. The Consumers move to Hollywood and play a handful of shows that were witnessed by the scene out there. And although I can't seem to find any exact dates/venues for shows that the Feederz play in Phoenix, the trio do head out to San Francisco and play a couple of shows at Mabuhay Gardens (10/6/78 opening for The Wierdos and 10/8/78 with Sharp and The Clergymen). I do not have details of the infamous debut show in which Frank Discussion allegedly opened fire on an unsuspecting crowd with an AR-15 filled with blanks. I am guessing this happened June or July 1978 when drummer Art Nouveau (Vivier) returned from playing drums with The Consumers in Hollywood.
Local bands may have played at The Hate House. According to the 1991 article by Dewey Webb that appeared in the Phoenix New Times shortly after the death of Rick Bertoni, The Hate House was opened in 1978 when Bertoni put down the first month's rent and nailed the front doors shut (although it has been difficult to find documentation of any bands playing there until the fall of 1980). The exact date in 1978 that the Hate House opened is not known, however the New Times article about Bertoni includes a quote from Dan Clark who says all the early bands had ties to it, including The Consumers.
When you consider the final Exterminators show I listed and false memories about The Sex Pistols, it's easy to speculate that Valley Art Theatre may had held more punk shows from time to time in 1978. The Alwun House is a long standing art gallery in Phoenix that was known to host a few punk rock shows in 1980 and could had very well had hosted shows as early as 1978 as well.
As far as local bands other than The Feederz, The Consumers, and The Exterminators, 1978 may had marked the beginning for Billy Clone and the Same, Victory Acres, and The Brainz. After Don Bolles and Rob Ritter had left The Exterminators and before the birth of The Brainz, Doug Clark formed a new band with Joe Albanese called The Annihilators, which featured future Paris 1942 member and former Phoenix New Times writer Jesse Srogoncik (aka James Verlaine) on vocals. According to what is written in the Mighty Sphincter biography, The Annihilators opened for infamous debut Feederz show. Doug Clark started the band after he returned from L.A. in 1978 (Clark was among the Cactusheads but returned to Arizona very shortly after).
To fill in the open spots in my timeline, I think it's safe to imagine more shows at biker/redneck bars, more one-off bands featuring members of The Feederz and The Exterminators, and more shows ending in riots and violence between the bands and the hostile clientèle.
Note: Speaking of tall tales, there is one that is frequently documented on the Internet about a Phoenix band called The Stoned who released a 7" single titled "Phonebook Killer", which would pre-date any vinyl releases I mention in the following 1979 section. The band and the alleged record is a hoax. It was started sometime in the 90s when the record was reviewed by a Phoenix fanzine called Buzzkill. It is amusing that the record does appear on a few collector's want lists.
1979
1979 is the year that we finally see some vinyl from Phoenix area punk & new wave bands. Although I cannot determine which was first, the first two records are from bands I briefed about in the 1978 section; The Brainz (a two song 7") and Billy Clone & The Same (4 song 12" EP titled X & Y). The latter features Bruce Connole who went on to form The Jetzons, The Cryptics, Suicide Kings, and The Busted Hearts, among many others. I can't help to think that, although punk and new wave in 1979 seemed to be part of the same cultural stream that attracted all young degenerates who were riding in the underbelly of the Phoenix club scene, Billy Clone & the Same performed and associated in a separate circle than The Feederz & The Brainz. When listening to the handful of early Phoenix punk & new wave vinyl, Billy Clone & The Same sounded like a band that eventually played to a more "rock" audience - perhaps a college crowd that had grown to accept radio friendly bands like The Cars , The Knack, and Blondie.
As far as venues, I have heard around this time that The Profile Room, Dizzy's, and The Golden 8 Ball were regular punk rock hang outs. Outside of the Brains and Billy Clone records, there are very few relics and archives that still exist today. Like 1978, The Feederz seem to had booked more shows in San Francisco than they did in Phoenix in 1979. Dooleys feature more touring punk and new wave bands. Still no word on if the Hate House were actually letting bands play as of yet. And while The Star System hosted a plethora of punk and new wave shows in 1980, I haven't been able to establish the new wave rock bar's existence pre-1980. In 1979, Franco Gagliano had yet to purchase The Mason Jar, however a pre-Franco version may had been there, name and all. I say this because I remember, yet have yet to retrieve, a particular article about The Jar in which Franco recalls calling family back home in Sicily to tell them he "purchased a punk rock club", which leads me to speculate something opened and operating was standing at 2303 E. Indian School Road long before Mr. Gagliano ever came to America.
In 1978, Paul Cutler had returned to Phoenix from Hollywood after the implosion of The Consumers. By 1979, he had formed a new band called Turquoise Orchestra, which was described as a "jazz version of Vox Pop" (source: 45 Grave Story in Flipside #22). Cutler started making trips back to L.A. later in the year in which he became involved in both Vox Pop and 45 Grave (both with Don Bolles). Turquoise Orchestra would stay in existence as late as December 1979, when they played the legendary Trout-O-Roma show.
Produced by Lucy LaMode (who went on sing for Killer Pussy), Trout-O-Rama was held at a rented Fireman's Hall in North Phoenix on December 1, 1979. LaMode said in a 2002 New Times interview that the event was financed by her mom and featured the debut of her first band, The Roll Ons. The show was headlined by The Feederz and may have featured many bands not listed on the below flier. Phoenix punk historian Arthur Shane says Trout-O-Rama was the first punk show he attended after he and a few friends found a flier stuck to a trash can in Tempe's Sin City area. What made this show unique is patrons were urged to bring fresh fish to throw at the band (which the bands responded by throwing back at the audience).
Other bands that may have started in Phoenix as early as 1979 are The Nervous (or The Doctors, featuring members who went on to form The Nervous), The X-Streams (first Phoenix ska band), The Pills (Tucson pop-punk that would play Phoenix on a regular basis. The singer was Brian Smith who went on to lead Gentlemen Afterdark and The Beat Angels), The Spiffs, The Bats, The Cicadas, The Deez (with Hate House founder Rick Bertoni on vocals), Swiss Family Sublime (featuring Brendan DeVallance pre-Advo-Cats, Jr. Chemists) and Eye (featuring the Kirkwood brothers a year before the official birth of the Meat Puppets). During the same time period as Eye, Derrick Bostrom forms a band called Atomic Bomb Club, but never play any shows around Phoenix.
1980
If you look long and hard on the web, you can find a few Phoenix punk fliers from 1980 - like the one above on the left that I grabbed from Flickr and the one on the right from one of the several Feederz Myspace pages. On the left: X-O-Rama, which was the follow up to the Trout-O-Roma show and featured more bands and less fresh fish. On the right: two shows held at Tempe's Star System in June 1980. The Star System (now known as Q and Brew, located across the big lot from The Yucca Tap Room) became a regular hangout for punk rockers, most who were not yet acquainted with The Hate House. The Star System hosted shows by locals like The Feederz, The Nervous, and the Meat Puppets, while welcoming out of town bands like The Go-Gos, X, and Monitor. The Star System would later be called Merlin's and only last a few short years under the new name.
The Hate House was very active in 1980, as documented by Brendan DeVallance's Phoenix scene page on his Sledbag site. The link will take you to a page with several Polaroid scans from Hate House shows on 11/14/80 and 12/19/80. DeVallance performed at the Hate House about a half a dozen times between his two bands The Advo-Cats and The Jr. Chemists (which featured future JFA bassist Michael Cornelius). His Sledbag site has a cool collection of local press write-ups that the Jr. Chemists received including a ASU State Press article from 1980 and many from the Phoenix New Times - some written after DeVallance had left Arizona. Brendan's memoirs are minimal, but priceless. I like how he not only talks of bands and venues, but local clothing shops like Sunset Boulevard and Punk Heaven. There are downloads from all his bands as well.
Between well documented events at both The Star System and The Hate House, the Phoenix punk scene had shown a huge growth spurt in 1980. It's the year in which Killer Pussy and Meat Puppets get their official starts. It's also marks the embryonic stages of other legendary Phoenix bands like JFA (formed 1981 from members of The Deez and Jr. Chemists), Mighty Sphincter (formed 1982 out of the ashes of The Brainz), and Sun City Girls (who would start performing in 1980 under the name The Next). A band called The Red Squares might had started out sometime in 1980 (by 1981 they end up releasing one of the most sought after 7" records in Arizona punk history). As for other bands that started in 1980, some can be found in a late-October 1980 New Times column written by James Verlaine (Jessie Srogoncik) which listed "new local bands to lookout for"; The Invalid Ballet Company, The Ex-Commuters, and The Mercenaries - among others I had already covered. A band called The Names also show up in many of Verlaine's columns. Although Doug Clark's Maybe Mental didn't officially form until 1982 (months before offically forming Mighty Sphincter), a band called Destruction had formed in 1980 and featured Alan Bishop of the Sun City Girls and Jessie Srogincik, among others.
1980 is the year the Feederz released their legendary 4 song 7" EP featuring "Jesus Entering From The Rear" on Nanxiety Records. Nanxiety could be Phoenix's first indie record label devoted to punk, later releasing The Red Squares 45 and a compilation LP in association with KUPD called Damn Straight. The Feederz EP would later be re-released on Tony Victor's more famous Placebo Records label. Perhaps considered a novelty act rather than a real terrorist threat, The Feederz receieve alot of respect and field dozens of invitations for high profile shows in 1980. They were even chose by Danny Zilesko as openers for an Iggy Pop show at Dooley's.
Probably my favorite piece of vinyl from this time period is the K-15 split 7" - more specifically The Nervous side, which includes the contagious and hypnotic "Black Dress". Phoenix's first ska band, X-Streams, take the other side of the split.There is not too much written about K-15, but I heard it was an AM station in Phoenix that would play punk rock and give fair amounts of airplay to local bands.
Another worthy EP released in 1980 came from The Pills from Tucson. 4 songs, including "Hollywood Doll" which had a Nerves meets Undertones feel. The Pills eventually moved up to Phoenix and renamed themselves Gentlemen Afterdark.
1980 ends with a spectacular New Years Eve show at The Barn in Tempe (located on Priest and Southern). The bands: The Deez, The Nervous, Killer Pussy, The Meat Puppets, International League, and Jr. Chemists. It's a line-up that more or less summarizes the pre-Mad Gardens scene. The Meat Puppets and Killer Pussy would launch themselves as nationally recognized punk stars while The Deez and Jr. Chemists would break up with one person from each band forming JFA.
And this is where I will end it for now. If you were a part of this scene anytime from 1976 to 1980,please feel free to comment and help me finish this story. I think within time this article will offer a cohesive insight of what Phoenix punk was like before the days of JFA, Junior Achievement, and punk concerts held inside a wrestling ring. even if it was bleak at times.
There were dozens among dozens of websites I borrowed information from to compile this story, many of them embedded into the above text. Below is more of the essential list of links - the ones that have the most comprehesible information about this time period in Phoenix.
Mighty Sphincter Oral History/Biography
Collector's Scum - Arizona Vinyl 1978-1985
Derrick Bostrom's Meat Puppets Blog
In The Red's page for The Consumers' All My Friends Are Dead (written by Brendan Mullen)
Feederz Myspace (official, different than the link I used in the 1980 section)Feederz Wikipedia
Brendan DeVallance's Sledbag (page with all his bands)
Bart Bull's WeAreTheConsumers Blog
Dewey Webb's Article About The Hate House from Phoenix New Times
On Facebook, Mad Gardens to Party Gardens
| Share on Facebook |
Posted by Will Tynor - aka Vil Vodka at 9/22/2009 10:36 PM 
Categories: Retroactive/Retrospective
Tags: The Consumers The Annihilators Meat Puppets Turquoise Orchestra Phoenix Punk History The Brainz The Liars (Phx 1978) The Roll Ons Eddy Detroit The Deez Killer Pussy X-Streams Feederz The Nervous The Exterminators The Pills Jr Chemists Don Bolles Mighty Sphincter
Categories: Retroactive/Retrospective
Tags: The Consumers The Annihilators Meat Puppets Turquoise Orchestra Phoenix Punk History The Brainz The Liars (Phx 1978) The Roll Ons Eddy Detroit The Deez Killer Pussy X-Streams Feederz The Nervous The Exterminators The Pills Jr Chemists Don Bolles Mighty Sphincter
Hmmmm...looks like I'm gonna have to dig out my small cache of pre-1980 memorabilia. I think I can fill in a blank or two. Two quick things:
Check out the KDIL Blues Licks zine online at:
http://www.kdil.com/blueslix.html
Also, The Jam didn't bypass Phx, they opened for Be Bop Deluxe at the Celebrity Theater in 1977 (I'm certain it took place before the Ramones/Runaways show). By the time they finished their poorly received set, however, I'll bet they wish they had skipped it!
Reply to this
Derrick! That would be great. I will check out that link and update the info about the Jam. Thanks so much ~ Will
Reply to this
Great job on your article....
I don't have any info for you pertaining to this specific time but can clear up the Maybe Mental/MS time line. MM did not form until 1982 (David Oliphant, Doug Clark-Victory Acres and Alan Bishop-Sun City Girls). While the main core of MS did play together prior to 1982/83 MS did not form under that name until late (like Dec.) 1982-83. Prior to MM was 'Destruction' (1980ish) with Alan Bishop, James Verlain-Paris 1942 and others. I'd be happy to share more info when you get to the 80's
Reply to this
W. David,
Thank you for commenting and setting the record straight on Maybe Mental. I will change it today. ...and I will post something about Destruction.
I dont think I will go farther than 1980...maybe 1981...?
Reply to this
Will! Great article! Unfortunately, I was too young to be a part of the local scene until the mid 80s(and then only as a spectator), but I remember friends' older siblings talking about some of the great shows from your article. Thanks for putting that together. It must have been a tremendous amount of work.
~Scott
(Speed63)
Reply to this
Thanks for mentioning http://portable-infinite.blogspot.com
I recently posted an interview with Don Bolles, and there is an old interview about the HB scene which was published in 1998 in Flipside.
Reply to this
Fuck yes. I've been searching for some of the old school folks for erratic! radio. Think i got some leads on the placebo records folks...not sure yet....I bought the "amuck" placebo comp on vinyl @ a thriftstore in bullhead city 18 yrs ago when i was 14 for a quarter....still spin it!changed my outlook on things. fuck phoenix had a crazy scene!...sun city girls and killer pussy...two bands i fucking love!!!
Reply to this
RE: The 02/18/1978 Dils show: The Dils did not appear.
Reply to this
Wow! Great article Will/Vil.
Reply to this
Thanks Michael. I need to update this. Arthur has given me so much stuff to add to this now.
Reply to this
Nice Work, Anti-Snob- I was present throughout much of what you are chronicling, at the Hate House, before and after. I have a lot of archival material I am willing to share, including a crayon Meat Puppets flyer left on the Hate House lawn, original Feederz stationary (with Frank biting my pet rat), LOTS of flyers and unpublished photos, and other items. I was present when Kim Chapman shot Rick Bertoni. I even have (somewhere!) the bullet...cheers- I-Bob
Reply to this
Thanks I-Bob,
I think you are FB friends with Amy (Perihelion, Cosmeticators), so we definitely hook up soon on what you have to share. Arthur has given me so much stuff recently that I need to update. Including a scan of the original New Times article on The Consumers and The Liars (1977, by Bart Bull), various Star System era articles, and fliers he scanned from Jack Burke's collection. I have alot of catching up to do. Thank you, Bob, for your comments
Reply to this
Nice job! Very Comprehensive. I just saw the film on the Runaways this evening and it reminded me of their show with the Ramones at Dooley's that you mention from Feb. 1978. I was returning from Detroit to LA and stopped off to see a friend in Phoenix. I saw a flyer for the concert and wanted to go, but my friend didn't. I went alone and met a cute girl in what passed as a "mosh pit." We went home together and stayed friends for years.
But the thing I remember most is that Dooley's was mostly a frat bar, with its proximity to ASU. In light of that, management had placed a green sheet on each table titled, "What Is Punk Rock?" A primmer for the natives. What a crackup. It totally confirms your ruminations about Phoenix being a bit slow on the uptake. As I remember, neither band went over that well. And, I must confess, I was more interested in the hottie I had just met. I was already 27 and had partied with the MC 5, the Stooges, and every other Detroit rock group, so this was kind of light entertainment for me.
But I never forgot it. Thanks for putting it down in writing. History tends to get circumspect when told from afar. You rock!
Reply to this
Hey, Will, thanks for this! I remember going to the Feb. 1978 Dils/Consumers/Exterminators show. I also remember seeing Turquoise Orchestra, and very early Sun City Girls shows at Alwun House. One point you had some questions about - There was definitely a July 1978 Blondie show at Dooley's, but NOT in support of Kinks, Blondie was headliner. I remember taking pictures for that show and a few other Dooley's shows, though I have no idea where any of them are now. Thanks for the memories.
Reply to this
Arthur pointed me this way. I must say that you went far and beyond any exhaustive research that I, even if I had time for, would admit to caring to spend doing. It's brilliant though, to read of the hi(story) of punk in Phoenix/AZ -- research that was compiled, from what I can discern to be very credible sources. Rad, just simply rad sir. Grand job.
Reply to this
On another note, I started a Facebook group called:
AZ H.I.P. Flyer 1977-
The acronym stands for Hardcore, Indie, and Punk, and the group's goal is to obtain a comprehensive, complete artistic (in the form of flyers) history of punk shows, hardcore, and indie shows in Arizona from 1977 to present day.
I "wasn't there" for the first 9 years, like you (starting in 1988) but have been since -- although not always collecting flyers like I did for the first 10 years or so -- and even then there's soo many gaps.
Please join and post your flyers (I stole the Dils one from your site for the avatar of the group).
Thanks in advance, and again, kick ass site!
Darren
Reply to this
Thanks Darren,
There is alot more to come. I have so much new stuff from Arthur to share. I was thinking of creating a whole new URL for it actually.
and yes I am already a member of your Facebook group. great idea. I love what I have seen on it so far
Reply to this
http://derrickbostrom.com/bostrom/2010/08/27/phoenix-punk-rock-days-john-e-precious-the-liars/
Reply to this
It only took me a YEAR to finish, but here's my article about the Liars:
http://derrickbostrom.com/bostrom/2010/08/27/phoenix-punk-rock-days-john-e-precious-the-liars/
Reply to this
thanks so much Derrick for posting this. I am going to place the link to your blog in a special blog entry.
Reply to this
wow - what a site.
I was in the middle of it all, as I was the drummer for the Nervous.
I have a lot of tales to add that I feel would be of great value. please contact me and I will be more than happy to present my memories and details of events on the local music scene 1976 - 1981
Thanks
Brian Damage, the Nervous, Red Wedding, 24 hour world
Reply to this
Great job pulling this info together! The Elvis Costello & The Attractions Phoenix Symphony Hall gig had two supporting acts, Nick Lowe and Mink DeVille.
I don't believe there was an opening act for the Devo gig at Dooley's. The show began with their films "The Truth About De-evolution" and "Come Back Jonee".
Reply to this
Just came across this via a link on Derrick Bostrom's site ... Down memory lane, man. I was in Phoenix from 8/81-5/84 &, while visiting on Xmas break before that, was lucky enough to have been at that great 12/31/80 show at the Barn. That marked the 3rd time I'd seen the Nervous that week (they'd played the Solid Gold with the Names a couple of times the previous week). My god, I loved that band ... by the time we moved out there some 8 months later, of course, they'd broken up. *sigh* Good times.
Reply to this
A little more information on Hate House. I remember going there for the first time in late 1978, a weekend or two after Devo played Dooley's (they had shreds of Devo's paper suits as a trophy on the mantle). Pretty sure Lucy was there and few other notables. They weren't hosting bands yet, it was more just Rick's party house at that point.
Reply to this
Thanks George, Dan, Bob, Brian, and everyone else. I love reading the input from those who were there
Reply to this
Found a little documentation in the March 1st, 1978 New Time about the DILS no-show at Valley Art. Dewey Webb's tiny column at the very end of the paper, right before the classified section. Sending you a scan. The ad for Dooley's that week shows Lou Reed/Ian Dury coming on March 30th.
Reply to this